The Orange Mailman

The God of the Beginning

Sun, 07 Sep 2008 18:55:58 GMT

Just to examine God in the first four chapters of Genesis is extremely insightful. What would Adam have known about God? What do we know about the One who brought all things into being? There are different names for God even within the creation account. The prevalent name from Genesis 1:1 through Genesis 2:3 is God, or Elohim. The word can denote plurality. Beginning in Genesis 2:4, there is a definite shift in God’s name. From 2:4 through 3:24 the prevalent name is LORD God, or Yahweh Elohim. In chapter 4 the primary name is LORD, or Yahweh. There is one reference to the Spirit of God in Genesis 1:2.

1:1-2:3

God

This “God” from whom all things originate, must have intimated the creation account to Adam after his creation on the sixth day. Adam proceeds with knowledge of who God is, understanding his subservience to Him. To say that the creation account of chapter 1 was not revealed until Moses is severely short-sighted. Adam understood God’s voice having intimate interaction with Him. Therefore, I include Genesis chapter 1 within the knowledge of Adam. Even though He was not present, God related these events directly to Adam as the earliest witness to creation, beside God Himself.

“God” preexists creation. God speaks and creation obeys. God takes authority over His creation by naming aspects of it. It seems that God sits back in a commanding position ordering it to do His will, which seems to be whatever He likes. God determines what He likes, or what is good.

God is separate from His creation. In the beginning God created; He made things beside Himself. He simply gives the command, and it happens. There is no labor to bring creation forth. It is simply done as He speaks.

Words to describe “God” would be Creator, Initiator, Master Planner, Father, Sovereign, and Separate One.

2:4-3:24

LORD God

The “LORD God” seems both similar to “God” and yet there is a shift in the nature of the person we are reading about. This “LORD God” is taking care of intimate details within the scope of creation, specifically regarding the formation of His crowning achievement, man and woman. This account of creation is quite different from what we read in 1:1-2:3. The former is characterized by broad, sweeping commands to which creation obeyed. Now with the “LORD God” we have Someone intricately designing the physical aspects of man, breathing breath into his nostrils, then planting a garden for him. It seems quite intimate. He takes Adam, puts him in the garden that He just planted, and personally gives him instructions. He presents Adam with His very own wife. Do you see that this LORD God is treating Adam with such precisely delicate care?

The LORD God walked in the garden that He had planted. He talked with the man and woman whom He loved. When they sinned, He made clothes for them. It seems that while “God” was separate from His creation, the “LORD God” came alongside man, interacting with him as if they were in a relationship. The texts do not state that the LORD God had a body, but there He was - walking with man, talking with man, forming Him like a potter would form a clay pot, breathing into His nostrils, planting a garden, forming individual animals just to see what he would name them, and fashioning them with clothes to continue the relationship that they had tried to sever.

Words to describe the "LORD God" would be Designer, Caretaker, Brother, Friend, Philanthropist, and Intimate One.

1:2

The Spirit of God

We only have one reference to the “Spirit of God” with not quite as much information as the other two names, but no less important. While “God” is separate from His creation, commanding things into existence, and the “LORD God” seems to have almost human qualities allowing Him to walk and talk with man, the “Spirit of God” is moving upon the face of the waters. The reference is before dry land comes into existence. So the Spirit of God is moving upon planet earth which has yet to be filled with life. To be throughout earth at the same time in an incorporeal being would be a manifestation of the presence of God displayed in neither “God” nor the “LORD God”.

As “God” commands from wherever He is commanding from, the Spirit of God seems to be the witness to the effects of His commands. As creation unfolds, the Spirit of God is not to be forgotten. He is a present witness of all that takes place. Anytime anything happens on the earth, the Spirit is present as a silent witness.

Words to describe the "Spirit of God" would be Ever Present, Watchful, and Spirit.

4:1-4:26

LORD

After mankind’s sin, the transition to the word “LORD” is apparent. There is a notable difference in the relationship between the LORD and mankind, which now includes others besides Adam and Eve. Instead of walking with man in the garden, mankind now lives outside the garden, but yet in the presence of the LORD. Mankind hears the voice of the LORD. Eve receives a man from the LORD. They bring offerings to the LORD. The LORD holds them accountable. Cain departs from the presence of the LORD. After the birth of Enos, men call on the name of the LORD.

While the LORD God was personally present with man and woman, now the relationship has changed. The LORD is present, but it is as if He is behind a veil. Mankind lives in the presence of the LORD, but He doesn’t walk with them like in the garden. He speaks to mankind at appropriate times, but not all the time. He is to be obeyed, but the world is full of sin. He sees the heart of each individual, determining if their worship is genuine. In short, there is a relationship between the LORD and mankind, but compared to the relationship in the garden of Eden, it is a strained relationship.

Words to describe the "LORD" would be Giver of Life, Deity, Counselor, Judge, Ruler, and Savior.

In the creation account, it seems that we have three facets of God interacting with each other, God (our Father), the LORD God, (our Brother), and the Spirit of God. We could call them Persons of God. Since God is Elohim, which is plural, we could say we have three persons within the Godhead. Each one is distinct simply by studying the way they interact with mankind. Yet each one is truly God, as they move with one purpose.

After sin enters into mankind, the LORD seems withdrawn from mankind. The nature of the relationship between God and mankind changed radically. Mankind can no longer experience the intimacy with God as witnessed in the creation account.

When I worked in GR as a clerk when I was first hired at the post office, I overheard a conversation between two other clerks. One was a young Vietnamese fellow and knew little of our culture and less of Christianity. The other seemed to be a middle aged, educated Republican. He was trying to explain the difference between the Old Testament and the New Testament to this Vietnamese fellow, who, by the way, is very intelligent. This is what he said to him:

“In the Old Testament, the focus was on Yahweh. In the New Testament, the focus changed to be on Jesus Christ and not on Yahweh anymore.”

I disagree completely. The Bible teaches at the beginning of creation that God appeared to man in a certain way. He continues to manifest Himself in that same way all throughout the Bible. Jesus IS Yahweh. The LORD God that walked with Adam and Eve is the same being that we know as Jesus Christ. The Spirit of God that moved upon the face of the waters is the Holy Spirit that indwells every believer. Father, Son, and Spirit were all present in the very substance of God at the beginning of creation. They are coexistent. There has been no change in God’s nature, only revelation of God’s plan to mankind.

Have fun and stay busy - Luke 19:13

-The Orange Mailman

Back to the Beginning

Sun, 07 Sep 2008 00:12:36 GMT

Long before prophecy became such an integral part of my Bible studies, I was consumed with a passion to discover the beginning for myself. My heart was drawn toward Genesis, specifically the first four chapters, in an effort to understand the beginning of all existence as we know it. After all, I couldn’t understand the New Testament without knowing the Old Testament. I couldn’t understand the prophets and their messages to Israel without understanding Israel’s genesis and exodus. I couldn’t understand Israel without understanding Abraham. I couldn’t understand Abraham or anything else in this crazy world without understanding creation and what originally transpired between Our Creator and His creation at the beginning. Basically, in order to build a house, you need a foundation. In order to have a theology, you need to have a beginning. Where does one start? At the beginning.

I found myself drawn toward the promise that God made in Genesis 3:15 regarding the seed. All those years ago, (let me think… 11 years?) I dubbed it the seed-promise since I didn’t know what else to call it. I didn’t realize some people had a fancy name for it like protoevangelium. I realized that the outworking of that promise could be found in a straight forward reading of the Bible. Jesus Christ is the ultimate fulfillment of that promise, but there were many steps to get to that place. I found that at every step along the path of the lineage from Adam to Jesus Christ, the progressive unfolding of that plan was manifested.

This series will focus on the first four chapters of the Bible in their original context. We know so much more than Adam did. We must try not to insert what we know back into his limited knowledge. But I think we give Adam less credit than he actually deserves. There are many insights that go unnoticed simply because we haven’t taken the time to put ourselves in the position of Adam (or Eve if you are a woman). I think we can confirm our discoveries with what we know from our vantage point. If we are coming to conclusions from studying the beginning, we can confirm it with teachings from other portions of scripture. There is nothing wrong with that.

What I will try to focus on is the point of view that Adam and Eve had. What did God’s Word (spoken word) mean to them? What did they think of the future? Did they have correct knowledge, incorrect knowledge, imperfect knowledge, or incomplete knowledge?

Have fun and stay busy - Luke 19:13

-The Orange Mailman

The Covenant Plan of God

Wed, 03 Sep 2008 00:14:20 GMT

God has one covenant plan spanning the entire Bible. This is why the phrase “his covenant” can be used without reference to any one covenant. The cornerstone of this covenant plan is The Seed-Promise Covenant in the Garden of Eden, Genesis 3:15. This should be considered a covenant. It is God’s decree. It is God’s covenant with Adam and Eve, progenitors of the human race. God was covenanting with all of mankind by promising to them a seed as in a person, and a seed as in a people. All which was lost in the fall God covenanted to reclaim through the Seed-Promise.

The Noahic Covenant is God’s continuation of the Seed-Promise Covenant. God continues the seed-promise lineage with Noah then Shem. He also continues with His covenant, not to destroy mankind, but to save mankind. The Noahic Covenant is God’s declaration that the Seed-Promise Covenant is still fully effectual. The fall reveals more curses in that animals will now fear mankind. Mankind will eat their flesh instead of only eating the fruit of the earth. For God’s long-term plan, vengeance can now be enacted on behalf of one who was murdered. This implies organized man will have a system of justice. The following chapters reveal that there will be nations. It is obvious that this is God’s plan since those who attempted to thwart the division into nations were forced by God to disperse at the tower of Babel.

The Abrahamic Covenant is God’s continuation of the Noahic Covenant. It was revealed to Abraham that God would make a great nation of him. This could only happen after the Noahic Covenant since before the flood there were no nations. The division of the earth into nations was for the purpose of taking one of those nations and separating it for God’s design. Yet God promised that all nations would be blessed through Abraham. This shows that God is building the Abrahamic Covenant on the foundation of the Seed-Promise Covenant. It is universal to all mankind in its scope. Yet it is also specific in revealing the lineage of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob through which God would fulfill His covenant plan.

The Mosaic Covenant is God’s continuation of the Abrahamic Covenant. The Mosaic Covenant has no basis without the foundation of the Abrahamic Covenant. God begins to unfold His plan even further by purchasing the nation of Israel for Himself. Every descendant of Jacob is now a part of the nation of Israel. The nation of Israel entered into God’s covenant plan via the Mosaic Covenant. God’s covenant plan is still to restore mankind as a whole. Each individual within the nation of Israel will either obey or not obey. Either way, they participate in the Mosaic Covenant with the result of either blessing or cursing.

The nation of Israel is revealed to be God’s peculiar people. No other nation was given the ten commandments to live by. No other nation was given the plan for the tabernacle. No other nation was given a divine command to conquer a specific land territory. Yet their goal is to spread abroad the fame of their great God, the God of Israel. Israel was not redeemed to simply belong to God, but to testify to other nations, thereby fulfilling the entire covenant plan of God.

The Palestinian Covenant is God’s plan for the nation of Israel built on the foundation of the Mosaic Covenant. Although they will be unfaithful as a nation, God intends to fulfill His covenant plan by scattering them and gathering them again. After the expiration of Israel forsaking the covenant [plan of God], they will return and obey as a nation. God will circumcise the heart of the nation and of their offspring. The Palestinian Covenant shows the eternal nature of the Mosaic Covenant.

The Davidic Covenant is built upon the foundation of the entire covenant plan of God. It continues the individual lineage looking forward to one man, revealing that this man will be a king like David. The plan revealed in the Seed-Promise Covenant is included in the Davidic Covenant. This king to come will be king over all creation. He will have a special relationship with the nation of Israel, but only to be a blessing to all nations.

The New Covenant is contrasted with the Mosaic Covenant which was able to be broken. Israel was able to break their end, but God had vowed the covenant had eternal ramifications. The New Covenant includes the continuation of the nation of Israel for eternity. Because the Mosaic Covenant is a continuation of the entire covenant plan of God which is for all humanity, the New Covenant cannot be limited to the nation of Israel. All humanity has the opportunity through the New Covenant to have God’s laws written on their hearts. The Seed-Promise Covenant is the cornerstone of the covenants and the New Covenant is the capstone.

The above is a rough skeleton of my Covenant Theology. Each covenant interacts with all the others. There is one covenant plan of God as He decrees each covenant. An individual covenant cannot stand alone, but must be put in perspective with the entire covenant plan of God. This means that the historical context of each covenant must be understood. Without the foundation of the Seed-Promise Covenant, any study in the covenants will be deficient. LORD willing, I plan to write a series of posts on the seed-promise.

Have fun and stay busy – Luke 19:13

-The Orange Mailman

The Church is God's plan for Israel

Tue, 02 Sep 2008 01:03:00 GMT

The church is not a pause in God’s program for Israel. The church is God’s program for Israel. The church is God dealing with the nation of Israel. The church is God working through the nation of Israel.

At Pentecost the church was birthed out of the nation of Israel. Believing Israelites were baptized (overwhelmed) with the Holy Spirit. Believing Gentiles were later baptized with this same Holy Spirit making them a part of the church. God is leading His church forward for the sake of the nation of Israel.

God is dealing with the nation of Israel through the church. Blindness is temporarily upon the nation of Israel. Believing Israelites are not blinded, though. They are part of the church, the true Israel. Believing Gentiles have been brought in to participate in the true Israel. If there were no remnant of believing Israelites, the church would never have been born. If there were no more believing Israelites, there would be nothing for believing Gentiles to be grafted in to.

God is dealing with the church as a peculiar people in order to provoke the nation of Israel to jealousy. Gentiles are brought into the true Israel in order that all the nation of Israel might become the true Israel. The blindness of Israel has an end. When Israel’s blindness is lifted, it will mean Israel’s national salvation. This will not mean the end of Gentile salvation, but the beginning. Gentiles are being saved now to show that any nation will be able to be saved in the same way that God will save Israel.

Once the nation of Israel has been provoked to jealousy, the entire nation of Israel will become part of the church. The church is God’s one people, both Israelite and Gentile. The society of Israel will be a model for the entire earth. The relationships within the nation of Israel will be the ideal community. It will be like Solomon’s kingdom only with every citizen with wisdom like Solomon’s and Jesus Christ as the King.

Have fun and stay busy - Luke 19:13

-The Orange Mailman

Gog- Twice Even

Sun, 31 Aug 2008 20:30:15 GMT

Russia flexing its military might has sparked a barrage of posts on the internet about Gog and Magog. The recent conflict between Russia and Georgia over South Ossetia has drawn in the European Union, Israel, Syria, and the good old United States of America. A person’s predisposition to the Gog/Magog prophecies of Ezekiel 38-39 will play into how they view current events in light of the end of the age.

I have some opinions on Ezekiel 38 and 39 which almost nobody shares. If anyone else agrees with me, let me know because it would be the first time anyone has. I believe that the Gog/Magog prophecies have been sensationalized almost to the extent of the rapture prophecies. Most prophecy students believe it’s a fact that the land dubbed Magog is the land of Russia. A majority of articles I read also believe that the Gog invasion will occur prior to Daniel’s seventieth week in order to set up a scenario for a seven year peace treaty, or will occur after a seven year peace treaty has been established resulting in peaceful living in the land of Israel.

It is true that this figure named Gog comes out of the north parts. To put this in relation to Israel is good hermeneutics. But just how far north are we talking about? Look at some of the countries that are aligned with Gog, Ezekiel 38:5-6. We have Persia which was east of Israel in modern day Iran. Ethiopia and Libya are in Africa, which is sort of south of Israel. The Mediterranean Sea is west of Israel. Gomer and Togarmah are usually identified with portions of modern day Turkey and part of the Ukraine, which of course is north of Israel. It’s like Ezekiel used terminology to convey a conglomerate of military forces from all sides of Israel. From the south, east, and north, they will gather against you headed up by this figure from the north.

So is Magog actually Russia? It could be. It seems very likely considering our current scenario. But I don’t have it written in stone as some prophecy scholars do. We need to keep our eyes on the development of leagues and treaties to see which nations will be confederate against Israel. Russia could ally itself with China to become part of the kings of the east instead of the Gog/Magog conglomerate from the north. Turkey could very well be at the heart of this Gog/Magog prophecy and we just don’t know it yet. My options are open on this.

One thing I am not very open minded on is timing. Here is the portion where I can’t find anybody to agree with me. My previous two posts show that I am Millennarian. Ezekiel 38-39 has language that clearly identifies itself with Armageddon which is a PreMillennial event occurring at the very end of Daniel’s 70^th week. Yet Revelation 20:7-9 explain Gog/Magog to be a PostMillennial event. Solution: By examining the original prophecy, we can clearly see a division which shows a portion of Gog/Magog to be fulfilled before the Millennium and a portion to be fulfilled after the Millennium (after many days).

===========

In Ezekiel 38 you notice that Gog is marching with a multi-national attack force. But in verse 4 it says that they are turned around by the divine intervention of God. He puts hooks in their jaws to lead them wherever He wants them to go. “After many days” (Ezekiel 38:8) there is another confrontation, but this time Israel is dwelling safely. That's because Israel will dwell safely during the Millennial kingdom. Jeremiah 23:5-6 links the Messianic reign with Israel dwelling safely. The phrase “after many days” reminds us of Isaiah 24:22 which is another inference to the Millennial Kingdom.

“After many days” Gog and Magog make a supernatural comeback. The armies of PostMil Gog advance on Israel despite what happened a full thousand years ago. The evil thought comes into his mind (38:10) because Satan has been freshly released from prison to deceive the nations one last time. As Gog leads the nations, the LORD will display His wrath by simply consuming them. So Ezekiel 38 starts out by describing armies on their way to the battle of Armageddon which occurs after the great tribulation has been cut short by God pouring out His wrath. But when we arrive at the phrase “after many days”, the prophecy of Ezekiel 38:8-23 gives us a window into the far future of a PostMillennial event which occurs as Israel is living in complete security and safety in the Messianic Kingdom.

In Ezekiel 39:1 we begin a new oracle from Ezekiel. Instead of flashing forward to “after many days” it is revealed what occurs to some of PreMil Gog's forces that marched on to Armageddon. They are turned around but continue on only to fall in battle on the mountains of Israel. The remainder of Ezekiel 39 uses language almost identical with the language of Armageddon in the book of Revelation. The birds gathering for the feast is the main parallel point; cf. Ezekiel 39:17-20 with Revelation 19:17-18. Notice how the invitation is given directly to the birds in both passages. But also God pours out His Spirit upon the nation of Israel as He gathers them out from every land. So Ezekiel 39 describes the PreMillennial event of Gog coming against Israel, while Ezekiel 38:8-23 describes the PostMillennial event of Gog coming against Israel. Yes it happens twice. Of course they are different individuals with the same title separated by a thousand years.

In Revelation, we read about the battle of Armageddon (Revelation 19:11-21) which occurs before the Millennial Kingdom which matches up with Ezekiel 38:1-7 and Ezekiel 39. We also read about Gog and Magog coming against the beloved city after the Millennial Kingdom (Revelation 20:7-9) which matches up with Ezekiel 38:8-23. Ezekiel saw both events but they can be distinguished. They are quite similar but separated by at least a millennium. This is the ultimate end of mankind without God; to be forever in rebellion against Him, even after His glory has been demonstrated by ruling in person for 1000 years.

I point this out because so many people think that Israel is going to live safely in unwalled villages before the Great Tribulation. Israel will only live in safety and security during the Messianic Kingdom. The prophets always paint the Messianic reign in this way. So I believe people are waiting for a sign which will never happen. When Daniel's seventieth week comes, many people could be in denial. They would think it couldn't be happening because Israel must be living in peace. This is in opposition to Luke 21:24 which states that Jerusalem will be trodden down by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

Jeremiah 23:5-6, mentioned above, has a parallel passage in Jeremiah 33:15-17. You can compare with Jeremiah 32:37-41 linking safe dwelling with the everlasting covenant. Isaiah 32:15-18 portrays the pouring out of the spirit occurring with the secure dwelling of God’s people in a peaceable habitation. Ezekiel’s own use of the word confirms my view. Ezekiel 28:25-26 but especially 34:24-31 show a picture of God restoring His relationship with the nation of Israel and giving them complete safety. Note Ezekiel 39:26 which places the dwelling in safety after God has slaughtered the forces of PreMil Gog at the battle of Armageddon.

Is Gog the antichrist? I believe he will be AN antichrist. I do not identify the PreMil Gog with the little horn of Daniel 7 or beast of Revelation 13, but I would be open to persuasion on this point. He comes from the far north to meet other armies at the battle of Armageddon. The beast of Revelation 13 will have his foothold in Jerusalem, Daniel 11:45, not the far north. The same passage speaks of a king from the north who will come against him, Daniel 11:40 The beast’s ten nation confederacy will send their armies against Jesus Christ. The kings of the east will do the same. I see Gog from the north as being the head of another conglomerate who will attempt to join the beast and his ten kings, and the kings of the east. God will turn some of Gog’s armies around so that not all make it to the slaughter of Armageddon. Speculation makes me think that the three spirits going out of the mouth of the dragon, the beast, and the false prophet will result in three multi-national military forces gathering to the battle of Armageddon.

Have fun and stay busy - Luke 19:13

-The Orange Mailman

The literal 1000 years

Thu, 28 Aug 2008 02:04:11 GMT

If other time periods mentioned in the book of Revelation are figurative or symbolic of something else, then we might have precedent to interpret the thousand years as symbolic of something else besides a thousand years. Let us look at the other time periods mentioned to see if they symbolize something other than the literal meaning.

Revelation 2:10

“Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.”

Is this symbolic of something? It could be a generic time period meant to give hope to anyone going through persecution to give perspective to the brevity of it. But in light of the fact that the seven churches unanimously stand in the shadow of the immanency of Christ’s return, I see this as prophetic to the great tribulation itself. If someone does not deny Christ, they will be cast into prison receiving persecution for ten days. If they don’t recant Christ and are faithful to the death penalty they will be given a crown of life and cannot be hurt by the second death. If it was meant to be symbolic of a brief period in time, why didn’t Jesus say, “You will have tribulation for only a short time.”?

Revelation 8:1

“And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.”

Heaven seems to exist within the realm of time. For the literal reading, we would say that the Day of the LORD begins with one half hour of silence in order for seven angels to prepare to bring seven plagues upon the earth, for the prayers of the saints (for vengeance, Rev. 6:9-11) to come up before God, and for the angel with the censer to cast fire from the altar into the earth itself. What would the symbolic view consist of? Symbolism is always explained in the Bible. There is no attempt here for the symbolism of a half hour of silence in heaven to be explained as meaning something else.

Revelation 9:5, 10

The five months of torment against mankind at the hand of the horde from the bottomless pit should be considered a literal five months first. If there were symbolism employed, it would be explained. There is no explanation for the five months of torture that is so bad that death would be preferred, although death will flee from them.

Revelation 11:2

But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Prophecy students who understand the background of Daniel’s seventieth week with the abomination of desolation occurring at the midpoint completely understand the literal nature of this time period of 42 months. The treading down of the holy city by the Gentiles begins in conjunction with the abomination of desolation. At the end of Daniel’s seventieth week, the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of Christ, therefore the holy city will be redeemed. The controversy of Zion will be over. Chapter 11 as a whole addresses this theme. Is there any suggestion in the text that this is a symbolic number?

Revelation 11:3

And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

Given the fact that 42 months equals 1260 days, it would seem that either we have God giving John the time period in two different methods to avoid symbolic interpretations, or we must interpret the symbolism in different ways and arrive at the same conclusion. The 42 months would have to symbolize 42 “somethingelses” and the 1260 days would have to symbolize 1260 “whatchacallits”; but both would have to equal the same amount of time. Since the treading down of Jerusalem begins at the same time that the two witnesses begin prophesying since they are announced together, and they both end at the same time (the seventh trumpet), both the 42 months and the 1260 days are the exact same time period. There is no attempt in the passage to say that either time period is symbolic of something else. It also harmonizes the passages to see them speak of a 3 ½ year period.

Revelation 11:11

And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

What would 3 ½ days be symbolic of? We already have a literal interpretation of 1260 days for the entire length of the prophecy of the two witnesses. 3 ½ days would be included either one of two ways. Either they prophesy for 1260 days, then are killed, lie dead for 3 ½ days, then are resurrected and immediately ascend into heaven; or they prophesy for some portion of time slightly less than 1260 days, then are killed, lie dead for 3 ½ days, then are resurrected and give testimony to those around them until the remainder of the 1260 days are fulfilled, then ascend into heaven. Either way, since days are days with the 1260 days, days must be days for the 3 ½ days as well. Otherwise your hermeneutic would be inconsistent.

Revelation 12:6

And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Here is a highly symbolic passage. Everything that is meant to be a symbol should have some apparent explanation. If the 1260 days is symbolic of something, then what does it symbolize? We already have one instance earlier which mentioned this exact same time frame. The simplest explanation would be that more details concerning this 3 ½ year period are being revealed to us. Later in chapter 13, we have another mention of 42 months in conjunction with persecution. This gives us good reason to believe that we are reading about the same 3 ½ year period with deeper insight added to it.

Revelation 12:14

And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

Here we must have symbolism of some kind. No one goes around saying they are going to be on vacation “for time, and times, and half a time”. The comparison to the previous reference can not be overlooked. Since the same woman is mentioned, the same type of persecution is mentioned by the same entity, and the same activity of feeding or nourishing is occurring during this period in time, we must be reading about the same event with different details. This would make the symbolism of “time, and times, and half a time” find its interpretation in the equivalent of 1260 days. This would also agree with the prophet Daniel who saw the persecution of the little horn against the saints to last for “a time and times and the dividing of time”, Daniel 7:25. So we do have a symbolic time period in Revelation, but it is interpreted in the same chapter by a literal reading of 1260 days.

Revelation 13:5

And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

These 42 months of power by the beast match up with the 1260 days of persecution against the saints. Unless there is some clear mention in scripture concerning what these 42 months symbolize, the simplest meaning is that it is referring to a 3 ½ year period. Again, the parallel passage from Daniel 7 speaking of a ten horned beast with an evil king persecuting the saints testifies to the unity of scripture. “Time and times and the dividing of time” is shown to be 42 months, or 3 ½ years.

Revelation 17:12

And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

Here is where a literal reading would not make sense. The beast rises out of the sea with ten horns. Then the beast wages war against the saints for 3 ½ years which ends in his demise. From our perspective of kingdoms, 3 ½ years is a very short time for an empire to rule. So to refer to this time period as “one hour” in a metaphoric way for a short period of time would be quite appropriate. The ten kings must be in power long enough to hate the prostitute and destroy her with fire. This metaphor of “one hour” as a short period of time is repeated in reference to the destruction of the prostitute, Rev. 18: 10,17, 19; but in 17:8 it states that it happened in “one day”. “One day” and “one hour” are clearly symbolic language used to describe vast destruction in a very brief period of time.

We then arrive at the description of the thousand years. Here the beast is cast into the lake of fire to show that we are at the end of the 3 ½ year period. The mention of the thousand years is to show what time frame is next on God’s calendar. The 3 ½ years of Daniel’s seventieth week are over. The 42 months of the holy city being trampled by Gentiles are over. The 1260 days of the two witnesses are over. The 1260 days of persecution against the woman by Satan are over. The 42 months of power granted to the beast are over. What is next?

One thousand years are next. Why would we switch to a symbolic interpretation when the book of Revelation has been consistently literal concerning the fulfillment of the prophetic timetable at the end of the age? There have been some symbolic time markers, but it has been clear where there is symbolism. It has also been clear that the 3 ½ years which closes this age is literal. It should also be clear that the thousand years directly follows that. If it is referring to an ideal time period, it is still a time period with a beginning and an ending. Does anyone remember what the original question was? Here is my ONE FRIENDS Jim with his comment again.

Why is the 1,000 year reign of Christ a literal 1,000 years. It would be in the only place in all of Scripture that the word "thousand" meant a literal and exact 1,000. Again, no amillenialist takes issue with whether Christ will reign (or, i guess, is reigning). The issue is with the literal 1,000 years.

So why does the thousand years have to be literal thousand year? I don’t necessarily think they have to be. This could be symbolic for a kingdom that will last for some ideal length in time before the final rebellion of Satan. The best interpretation seems to be that it is a literal thousand years. We are living in the last days of this age right now. Since the 3 ½ years will be the final days of the last days, the thousand years will be like the beginning of the beginning of the age to come. It will be the kingdom come, but only the beginning stage. When He comes, He must reign until all enemies are under His feet. Then He will deliver up the kingdom to God so that He Himself will be subject to the kingdom so that God may be all in all, I Corinthians 15:20-28.

I hope that answers the question, Jim.

Have fun and stay busy – Luke 19:13

-The Orange Mailman

The placement of the thousand years

Wed, 27 Aug 2008 00:43:57 GMT

My ONE FRIENDS Jim has a question. I’ll quote him from a comment he made.

While Jim’s comment is slightly inaccurate since the differences between A-Mil and Pre-Mil span a far greater chasm than just the 1,000 years being literal or figurative, I think the question warrants answering. Why does that 1,000 years referred to in Revelation 20:2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 have to be a literal 1,000 years? Why can’t it just be a symbolic number used to tell us some spiritual truth about something else? Before I deal with that issue specifically, I would like to address some other points of interest concerning the thousand years.

The placement of the thousand years.

First of all, one of the big differences between A-Mill and Pre-Mill is where to place the thousand years. Pre-Mill would say that the thousand years is yet future while A-Mill would say that it is occurring right now, but in a non-literal way. Perhaps if we reduce the debate to this issue alone, we may be able to make some headway. In this section, I would like to strip away any preconceived notions that we have and stick solely to the few texts that we have. That means we cannot use the phrase “the thousand year reign of Christ” since it doesn’t occur. We cannot say “The Millennial Kingdom”; it doesn’t exist in scripture. This is one reason that I prefer the phrase “Messianic Kingdom” more and more, for those readers who haven’t caught on yet. What do we know about this alleged “thousand years”?

Satan is bound ~ We know that Satan is bound in the bottomless pit during the thousand years. Satan will be shut up with a seal upon him with no ability to deceive the nations. Within this language is a reference that the thousand years has an end, since it states that after the thousand years are “fulfilled”, Satan will be released. So before and after the thousand years, Satan is loosed deceiving the nations.

The reign of the saints ~ Those who have a part in the first resurrection will reign with Christ for a thousand years. It is understood that Christ is reigning, but Christ’s reign is not limited to a thousand years by the text. Only the reign of those who reign with Christ is described as lasting for a thousand years. Those who were beheaded for the witness of Jesus and the word of God are stated to have a part in the first resurrection. Also, those who refused to worship the beast, his image, and refused to take his mark are stated to have a part in the first resurrection. Those who have a part in the first resurrection are then described as priests of God and of Christ. Thrones, judgement, and reign are the words to describe the new position of the saints.

The non-resurrection ~ An important point must not be overlooked. Arguments from silence are used so frequently in debates, yet some of them are biblical. Here we have a description of an omission. There are described in the text some who are brought to life to reign with Christ for a thousand years. Yet it states that there are others who are not brought to life. The remnant who are not brought to life are stated to be brought to life after the thousand years are finished. So while the thousand years is occurring, there are many who remain dead in a state of non-resurrection.

Its beginning point.

The thousand years has a beginning point. It begins with the binding of Satan. The effect of this binding is that Satan can no longer deceive the nations until the thousand years are over. There are different views as to the chronology of Revelation. If you have already chosen a viewpoint, you may have already determined how you will read this text before even examining other passages. My view point is one of linking common themes throughout the book and letting these themes determine the chronology.

We know that Satan will give his power to a governmental framework and a man at the head of that system, Revelation 13:2. We know that unclean spirits will come forth from Satan, the beast, and the false prophet in order to work miracles to gather the kings of the earth to Armageddon for battle, Revelation 16:12-16. It is this very gathering that is described in Revelation 19:17-21 just previous to the description of the binding of Satan. Linking this common theme together, I believe we can safely put the binding of Satan directly after the battle of Armageddon.

Although there will be a final gathering against the Christ at Armageddon, this deception of the nations is typical of this age. Psalm 2, which is a Messianic psalm, speaks of the kings of the earth gathering together against the Messiah. The early church quoted this psalm as the rulers of Israel stood against the message of repentance and forgiveness in the name of Jesus, Acts 4:23-31. So to place the binding of Satan at the beginning of the church age seems to run counter to the way the early church saw the kings of the earth still under the influence of Satan.

The binding of Satan is something that is not occurring right now according to the way the early church interpreted Psalm 2. The nations are still deceived into thinking they can stand against Messiah and Messiah’s people. Only after the battle of Armageddon will Satan be bound in the bottomless pit for a thousand years.

The first resurrection is also an event that occurs at the beginning of the thousand years. Identifying the people who are resurrected in the first resurrection gives us tremendous insight as to when it will occur. When we read that those who were beheaded for the witness of Jesus and the word are included, we may yet remain vague in our viewpoint. But as soon as the text mentions those who refused to worship the beast, worship his image, or to take the mark of the beast, we know the first resurrection must occur after the 42 months of persecution against the saints by this beast and false prophet. Then we can move back and reexamine the inclusion of all who were beheaded for the witness of Jesus and the word and see this occurs after the persecution of this entire present time is over. This present persecution will culminate in the great tribulation which begins with the 42 months previously mentioned. Conclusion: The first resurrection occurs after the great tribulation.

Thus we see that the beginning of the thousand years is after the battle of Armageddon and after the 42 month period of persecution against the saints by the beast (empowered by Satan) and the false prophet, also known as the great tribulation.

Its ending point.

The thousand years are said to fulfilled, finished, or expired, but the Greek word in each situation is the same, teleo. The idea of this word is to be finished, to bring to an end, to be completed. This is what Jesus said from the cross when He cried out “It is finished!” So while it is plain that the thousand years have a beginning, they also have an ending.

The one event that practically defines the “teleo” of the thousand years is the release of Satan from His prison. After His release, he deceives nations to gather them to battle. Some would say that John is seeing a recap, or a retelling of what he has previously seen. Some would say that this is just another vision of Armageddon from another point of view. There is one good reason why this cannot be a review of Armageddon. After this deception and gathering, Satan is cast into the lake of fire to join two other figures who are already there. The beast and false prophet are already in the lake of fire when Satan is cast there after the thousand years. This shows us that we have a chronological reading of Revelation 19 with Revelation 20. The beast and false prophet are cast into the lake of fire at the battle of Armageddon which is before the thousand years, and Satan is cast there to join them after the thousand years.

There are other differences which are noteworthy. When the beast and false prophet gather kings to make war at Armageddon, it is against the One who sits on the horse, meaning Christ. When Satan gathers the nations after the thousand years, they surround the camp of the saints and the beloved city. This shows us that the saints are centrally located in one position at this time somehow in connection with the beloved city. Also, at Armageddon the birds devour carcasses which had been slain by The Word of God. After the thousand years, fire from heaven devours those gathered against the saints. Different OT prophecies are referred to as well. In reference to the beast, imagery from Daniel is invoked. In those OT passages, the governmental systems of this world are smashed and given to the saints. After the thousand years, the prophecies of Gog and Magog from Ezekiel are referenced. Those who know my views on Gog and Magog understand where I am coming from. I think I’ll post a refresher on that.

Whether or not this time period is an ideal, or symbolic time period, there is no way to get around the fact that it is still a time period with a beginning and an ending. This time period will begin at the end of this age. There is no way to interpret these passages to mean that the thousand years are occurring right now. My next post will focus on the use of literal versus symbolic time periods in the book of Revelation.

Have fun and stay busy – Luke 19:13

-The Orange Mailman

Me? A Preterist? No, No, No.

Fri, 22 Aug 2008 02:38:29 GMT

After my posts on Preterism a while back, I had some mixed reactions. My posts were aimed at proving that the Futurist position is the superior one. In a nutshell, I was striving to show that the things that were fulfilled in 70 A.D. were a literal fulfillment of what Jesus had clearly foretold. Many things were not fulfilled literally and remain unfulfilled at this point in time. God intends to literally fulfill them. But Preterists want to take those things that weren’t fulfilled and somehow say that they were fulfilled in a spiritual or symbolic way in the first century.

I don’t intend to rewrite all those posts as I will post links to them below. To sum up, here are the things that were literally fulfilled in the first century.

-The destruction of specific Galilean cities, Matthew 11:20-24, Luke 10:13-15.

-Jerusalem surrounded by armies, Luke 21:20

-The destruction of the temple, Matthew 24:1-2, Mark 13:1-2, Luke 21:5-6

-The destruction of Jerusalem, Matthew 23:37-39, Luke 13:32-35

-The kingdom of God taken from national Israel, Matthew 21:43

Now here are some prophesied events that were not fulfilled but Preterists try to say they were in a spiritual way.

-The resurrection of the righteous

-The new heavens and new earth

-The cosmic signs

-The abomination of desolation

-The great tribulation

-The antichrist

-The coming of the Son of Man

My point is that if we are to practice a consistent hermeneutic, then these fulfillments cannot be spiritualized, but will come to pass quite literally, or as the language actually reads. After all, isn’t that how the 70 A.D. events were fulfilled? The temple wasn’t spiritually destroyed; it was literally destroyed in the very manner Christ predicted. The city of Jerusalem wasn’t spiritually desolated; Titus physically desolated it.

I’m posting another post on this to say that there are some Preterists who are in agreement with my point of view. This is what I meant by mixed reactions. They call themselves True Preterists and distance themselves from a position they term HyperPreterism. They deem HyperPreterism to be heresy and want no part of it. But like me, they see 70 A.D. fulfillment. But in my view, they cave on issues like the coming of the Son of Man, the abomination of desolation, and the great tribulation which they try to fit in to the destruction of Herod’s temple. Truth be told, though, Jesus did not come with His holy angels and reward the saints, no abomination was placed in the temple for the purpose of worshiping it, and the great tribulation which was supposed to be unequaled was surpassed by the Holocaust.

To be gracious, I don’t want to say that these “True Preterists” are guilty of heresy since they hold to a future physical, bodily resurrection, a future new heavens and new earth, and a future coming of Jesus Christ. I have quite a few things in common with them since I am not shying away from the fact that many things that Jesus prophesied of were fulfilled in 70 A.D. This makes some Preterists read my materials and think I hold to their position. Dee Dee Warren has links up to some of my articles over at The Preterist Site. I’m not joking; you can see the links for yourself here. She understands that I am a Futurist, but the common denominators link us together. Here are the links to some of the posts I wrote on Preterism.

Jesus Prophetically Pronounced Judgement On His Own Generation

The “Mark Dilemma” For Futurists

Luke 21 does not contain the Olivet Discourse (emphasis on Jerusalem)

Luke 21 contains a discourse at the temple

Prophetic Tension and the Olivet Discourse

And to wrap it up…

What if I am a Preterist?

There were more, but you’ll have to do your own homework. I wrote them all about the same time so just look in that general time span. If you read the above articles, though, you will get the general idea of where I am coming from.

Have fun and stay busy – Luke 19:13

-The Orange Mailman